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The heating supply thermistor is defective. It sounds almost like cavitation or a magnet rubbing against the casing as the recirculating pump winds down. A water recirculating pump is also similar to this. We don't tend to provide any plumbing advice or any advice that should come from a certified professional. The average electric tankless water heater needs at least 120 amps to work. When I hooked hoses to the service pipes, the system still produced a strong, steady flow of water, seeming to not drain. Like with most things, a lot of noise coming from your hot water recirculation pump isn't a good sign. Lets hop in! What disadvantages, beside cost???? Unplug the power to your Navien water heater. If you are looking for a tankless water heater that can provide you with hot water 24/7, Navien water heater is the way to go. Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after youve turned it off for your safety. (Cost Calculations), BTU/h To Horsepower Calculator + BTU/h To HP Chart (To 72,000 BTU/h), Horsepower To BTU/Min: Convert HP To BTU Per Minute (Calc + Chart), HP To BTU/hr: Horsepower To BTU For A/C (Calculator + Chart). Remove the intake filter and properly wash it using a brush beneath running water. This chapter will reveal all the possible culprits that cause the recirculation pump of your Navien to make a humming noise. Years of experience in the HVAC field have taught him many lessons, not the least of which is that the value of quality and knowledge far exceeds any promised initial savings. You also have to flush the heat exchanger. Then re-insert the filter and screw it back in place. If the problem does not get resolved, replace the motherboard or control board or hire a professional t do it. Hello David, well, the additional costs are a con here. The recirculation pump will make a squeaking noise if the installer fails to install the primary loop correctly. I guess the recirculation line will be the only one that is copper. Navien ComfortFlow is the first and only system that incorporates a built-in insulated buffer tank and recirculation pump. Allow it to dry and then fix it back. This is the system you can see in the photos above. The only problem you have is there is no check valves in place check valves or like stop signs that direct traffic check valves, direct to flow of water. The filter is located at the top left of the water heater. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? Free returns are available for the shipping address you chose. Follow Up: struct sockaddr storage initialization by network format-string, Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology, Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying. All you have to know is how to turn it off. It has a timer that turns on the pump at regular intervals, mostly during peak usage times. Air in the line: If there has been a power outage or air has gotten into the line for another reason, the pump can make a lot of noise. Place the filter assembly back into the water heater and secure it with the screw. We hope we were able to help you out with our guide. So, keep reading till the end. It tells you about the improper operation of the flow sensor. It will help you avoid common water heater issues and let you operate the unit smoothly. Grundfos small circulators are perfect as hot water recirculation pumps for commercial and domestic hot water applications. . Always on checks in every 30 minutes and turns on the heat recirculation if the water is 9 degrees under the water goal temp. Then, read the manual on Navien tankless water heater how to reset. For example, an open or shorted sensor causes this issue. Your Navien Recirculation Pump will make a humming noise like a refrigerator if you dont bleed the air out of the recirculation system. Therefore, the total peak demand of hot water needed is the ideal size of the heater you should get. However, whenever I turn on the cold water at the kitchen sink the tankless unit starts to run (heat water) even though I dont want heated water. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Otherwise, this will cause the shut-off valve to get damaged. I have a tankless water heater with an external recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. Privacy Policy. What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification? The large valves should be in the off position, whereas the service valves should be in the on place. On-Demand Mode. Do the plumbers explanations make any sense at all or does it sound like BS? Question: How is a water recirculating pump eco-friendly?Answer: The basic reason is, water recirculating pumps save water. The operations manuals above cover all Navien NPE-A and NPE-S series condensing tankless water heaters. Turn off your main water valve if you are going on vacation. The exhaust is overheating. A family of 4 with normal water usage can expect to save $50-$75 a year. For most existing homeowners, integrating a recirculating home pump comfort system on top of the existing piping makes much more sense: Heres why this is the most popular type of hot water recirculating pump in homes: You use the existing water pipe alone. I don't hear the heater "fire up" right away when the tap is opened and can't tell if the recirculation pump is running. Examine and confirm the pressure sensor and wiring are in good condition. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 toby sutton wife of frank sutton how to turn on navien recirculation pump Allow the vinegar to circulate through the heater for a minimum of one hour (longer if the pump runs at less than four gallons per minute). When building a house, its smart to think about hot water recirculation as well. Below are different Navien water heater error codes and their solutions; Navien error code 003 how to fix indicates that there is an ignition failure in your unit. The bigger the house, the longer these water pipes usually are, and the longest it takes to get hot water. However, the hot water had to travel from your water heater to the faucet for you to use. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. Read the users Navien nr-240a manual to get information on how to flush the heat exchanger and reset the remote for Navien tankless water heater. This extra pipe is installed parallel to conventional piping. Besides, the E782 indicates that there is something wrong with the main panel communication. So, hire a professional to deal with the issue. The 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors are used to connect the pump to your existing pipes. Make sure there are no loose connections. I kind of feel like he is trying to get away with something that wasnt installed properly but hopefully I am wrong. However, I have envious of those who have the NPE with the hot button and wifi link. If it does, you could trigger the operation to save money whenever your system detected 'away' or however you've got it programmed. To create an energy-efficient full recirculation system, your pump has to come with these two efficiency optimizing parts. Where is the 2 internal drain valve in Navien 240a tankless water heater (damaged needs replacement), Shower gradually cools, gets hotter when sink is on. The error code E736 informs about the issue in cascade communication, and error code E740 indicates that the outdoor temperature sensor is not working correctly. Next, hook hoses to the valves, then open them to drain the water. You can set it to run in the morning before work, and in the evening. It depends on how the recirculation pump is installed, and some other factors, plumbers usually know this stuff pretty well. Any thoughts on that? What I imagined would happen is 3-4 seconds of cold and then super hot water that was just waiting for me from the recirculation. Close the cold and hot water inlet valves and then drain the water heater. I mounted the contact switch inside the cabinet per the kit instructions. Is there a way to tell if the cold pipe is circulatory/return line or cold water from the mains? However, if it generates annoying or buzzing noise, there is something wrong with the system. Can I swap out the mainboard in the NR240A to an NPE240A board to get all that features? $197.08 $ 197. It also may be as simple as a dip switch in the tankless unit itself. Check to see if the warranty is still valid and contact the manufacturer. This is because the sensors are corroded over time which causes them to shut the heater down. You just have to set the timer as you use it. Lets outline them here: To determine if installing a hot water recirculation pump makes sense for your situation, we have to check the pros and cons. Types of water circulation pumps, including tankless water heater recirculation pumps. Also, as I'm taking a closer look at it, I'm concerned that some key things may be amiss. Thats why most homeowners prefer installing the recirculation pump without the extra pipe. It is propelled only by water pressure. This made me suspicious that water was coming from the mains. Start by turning off the service valves and removing the hoses. Then, tighten up the cap again once you remove all the air from the loop. Here are four problems with these pump systems that you should be aware of. Then, use the arrows to set the desired temperature. The pump works on the existing pipes; it basically sends the leftover water back to the boiler or the heater. The cold water inlet one thermistor is defective. I have the newest version pcb since I just bought the tankless. To remedy this, you can take the two clamps off the sensor, pull it out and clean it. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Lets look at the two most popular types: You can install hot water or tankless hot water recirculation pump in an existing or in a new home. Return this item for free. An open or short thermistor can be the root cause of this problem. But, making sure youre doing it the right way is important. Navien's patented ComfortFlow system is the first to include a buffer tank, recirculation pump and fine-tuned controls into a tankless water heater, resolving the cold-water sandwich effect* and issues of minimal flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. (+ Calculator), 5 Best Air Purifiers For Allergies In 2023 (+ H13 Medical-Grade HEPA Filters), Is A Tankless Water Heater Worth It? Any tips on where to verify if I have a dedicated return line? The upfront cost is a major deterrent when deciding if it makes sense to install a circulation pump or not. Not Mounted The Pump Securely or Isolate It, Navien Tankless Water Cycles On And Off [5 Easy Solutions]. Well tackle the installation and running costs of a circulating pump in full near the end. Generally, your Navien recirculation pump will produce a humming noise because of the wrong size primary loop, not purging the recirculation pump, or foreign materials getting into the pump. So, get 2 braided ss flex connectors and install them on the inlet and the outlet of the pump. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. To remedy the issue, consider increasing the gas supply to the heater. It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. Neither reason is likely to be correct but we would need a much more in depth knowledge of the hot water distribution system and the circulation line in particular. This may require chasing the supply lines. Because the recirculation pump ran with no water, the motor ended up burning out. You can contact a plumber if necessary. These on-demand units need an even longer time for the hot water to reach a faucet because the heater has to first heat the water and then send it along to the faucet. If you have any questions about these pumps, how they work, or some calculations, you can give us the specifics in the comments below and well try to help you out. Similarly, if the return from the loops is mixing with the boiler loop system and cooling off the water before it gets sent to the recirculation pump, you will face this problem. What effect does this have on gas usage for instant hot water? Now, you have to know the hows for reducing damage. Where does the circulation return line tie in, and where is this in relation to the Naviien unit, other fixtures, and appliances in the home? This can be determined based on the following factors: The average water usage for different hot water uses are as follows; Check this too: Insinkerator Hot Water Dispenser How-to & Troubleshooting Guide. Of course, the most important part is the pump itself, so well start with that: These are the standard building blocks of every recirculation pump for getting hot water quickly. So, saving water is the main reason for calling a recirculation pump eco-friendly. 2. If you are unsure of whether the recirculation pump was correctly installed, contact Navien technical center or the NSS agent who installed the heater. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! Is the cable harness compatible? Check if there is any gas leakage before turning it on after a couple of days. Weve tried to include every concern you might have regarding turning off the water recirculating pump. How Much Does 500 Watts Cost Per Hour? Why Its Important To Turn Off The Water Recirculating Pump? Its a piece of cake to bleed the air out of your Navien recirculation pump. Find products from Grundfos related to this subject. How To Fix Navien Tankless Water Heater Code E003? This happens when you have a huge heater and lower gas output. The heater turns off automatically when the flue pipe surpasses 149 degrees Fahrenheit. Some sort of noise out of your Navien recirculation pump is normal. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. When he is not busy trying not to electrocute himself, you can find him in the garden tending to his vegetables and chickens. T = the water cooling, normally 5 C determined at the farthest consumption point [C]. If the issue persists, contact your original installer or an NSS to service the sensor. This might be a small installation error or a faulty setting. Therefore most homeowners try to cut down costs wherever possible, bypassing the recommended installation procedure. Though we share resources, information, and educational guide on plumbing & DIY projects, the content here is not a substitute for professional guidance. Refer to the user manual to locate the Hot Button and then press it to activate hot water recirculation. Thats 2,920 gallons of water per year wasted. Check the wiring and cold water inlet two thermistors and make sure both are in good condition. Therefore, when it malfunctions, it is a sign that the heater has another major underlying issue. Navien NaviCirc Recirculation Valve Description How it works Specifications Dimensions Press the Power button on the front panel to turn off the water heater. Therefore, I can't drain the system. but you stopped short for me. It looks like you're using an ad blocker. That installation is incorrect. How is an ETF fee calculated in a trade that ends in less than a year? Here is the final install. Or invest in a larger water heater. Note on tankless hot water heater recirculation pumps (double trouble solved). Disconnect the power supply to the water heater. Here is the summary of all the negative aspects of hot water circulation pumps: This is the key question. Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. Press the Power button on the front panel to turn on the water heater. It means there is some issue with a water pressure sensor. Get in touch with Navien technical support at 800-519-8794. Thanks for confirming and letting me know about the potential damage to the circulating pump as that hadn't occurred to me. Once the tank is thoroughly drained, clean the base of the heater. Worst case is your plumber might have to call since they require them to maintain it. It can take anywhere from 10 seconds to 1 minute for the hot water to reach the faucet. However, some gas needs to be used to heat water for the pump to circulate; the gas usage for this is pretty much insignificant relative to how much gas we use when powering the instant hot water heater. I have an NR240A for about 10 years now. You can tell because the cold supply line is connected to the circulating return. Navien has an aftermarket add on hot point or something that lets you control when the recirc is on. Set the pump in the bucket and plug it in. Also, did you wire the PB from the Hot Button kit or only use the remote? Another suggestion I can give you is to maintain and service your Navien water heater according to the manual. 10.6 Maintenance 10.7.3 NPE-180A/240A Pump P-Q Curve The Navien NPE-180A and NPE-240A water heaters that are used . Im interested in information on a tankless water heater with a built in recirculating pump. Remove the front cover of the water heater. Make sure the exhaust pipe is not obstructed. Thanks. (+ Installation Costs), How Many Amps Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? You must log in or register to reply here. Your question, can I turn off my hot water pump? has been answered. Normally uncontrolled pumps are used as the flow variation is relatively small. But it will be best if you contact a certified plumber to fix this issue. You can contact a plumber if necessary. I added an additional remote for a total of 3. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. You have to inspect the sensors connectors to confirm they are not wet and fixed correctly. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Question: Can a recirculating pump last for 10-15 years?Answer: If you use it properly, it should last at least 10-15 years. Also, check the feeder valve and pressure relief valves activity. You can replace the sensor if needed. Press the M (menu) button on the front panel and choose the 1. While you may have a general understanding of the listed electrical issue above, you should not attempt to handle any electrical work unless you are a licensed electrician. Putting one recirc line in won't turn a line and branch system into a loop system automatically. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Turn off the device for 30 minutes and then restart it. The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. Cookie Notice That means that this household wasted 8 gallons of water per day just waiting for hot water. If you look at the instructions, which tech support emailed to me, there is a Signal 1 input for 12 or 5V devices including remote controls or motion sensors BTW the other remote was sold out. So, there is such a thing. The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. Working well so far. Increase water pressure at the water heater. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Navien NPE-240 A Recirculation Line www.amazon.com/shop/miheatingguy Milwaukee 2131-20 M18 ROCKET Dual Power Tower Light Hot Water Recirculating Loop Owen Perkins 81K views 3 years ago NAVIEN. air), Sensible Heat (BTU/hr) = 1.1 x CFM x t (std. Recirculation valve for use with NPE-A series tankless water heaters Designed for recirculation of domestic hot water in applications where a dedicated return line is not available. Hello Sam, you can shut off the recirculating pump to the kitchen faucet. 2 Types Of Hot Water Recirculation Pumps Used In Homes, Type 2: Recirculating Home Pump Comfort System, Advantages And Disadvantages Of Hot Water Recirculation Pumps, How Much Do Hot Water Circulation Pumps Cost + Installation Cost + Running Cost? Not really. Quick summary on costs: Recirculating a pump is certainly useful if you want hot water quickly. I installed this system a few days ago and I've been trying to trouble shoot the noise that's coming from the re-circulation pump. IF it does, could it be controlled remotely? Turn the pump off and dump the vinegar. Why isn't my Navien tankless water heater performing as it should? The user manual for these devices (of which I own two) provides a pretty good plumbing diagram for proper install. Calculator + Chart (Natural Gas), Average Gas Bill For 1-Bedroom Apartment: State-By-State Cost Analysis, Average Electricity Bill For 4 Person Household (Survey Analysis), How Many kWh Per Day Is Normal? Yes, you can turn off your hot water recirculating pump. Separate Recirculation Pumps. There are more options, for example- you can buy a wifi socket. Examine and clean the filter in a cold water inlet. This error informs you there is something wrong while you reset the unit. Both options use less energy than a continuously-running system. We recommend to use caution and seek the advice of qualified professionals. Check the thermistors condition along with pump wiring connectors. I would appreciate any help and insight you can offer. $44.90. Works great and saves the copper pipes. Turns out if you "disable" schedules when in always on mode it stops the every 30 minute schedule the device uses when in Always On mode. Yes!!! - If there is not the fore mentioned set up he probably did the best he could do without re plumbing your house with double hot (returns to your Navien! It is located on the lowest corner opposite the on and off button. Some pumps, in order to avoid needing a dedicated return path, will recirculate the water via the cold water supply, so getting some hot water from the cold supply would be normal in this case. This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. We have a standard gas hot water heater with a circulating pump. In compliance with California's . It only takes a minute to sign up. It clips on the side of the PCB board without screws and then you connect a ribbon cable to the PCB. Navien Flow Sensor. Why Does My RV Carbon Monoxide Detector Keep Going Off? Navien tankless water heater recirculation March 31, 2016 At the push of a button, Navien 's HotButton accessory activates the internal recirculation pump and gas-fired burner to heat up the water in the supply lines. When you are installing water system stuff, a lot of things can cause low pressure. Do you want to know the details? Then remove the cold water filter off located next to the cold water isolation valve. Step 1 Remove the plug from the socket on the end of the wire that connects to your circulator pump. Lets look at the individual parts that make up the recirculation pump for hot water: If you want to install a recirculation pump, you start by getting the whole recirculating pump kit. We have one faucet in the kitchen that has instant scalding hot water the second you turn it on . Turn off the electrical supply to the pump Locate the small bleed screw on the pump Remember the pump is full of water, so place the cloth underneath the screw Turn the screw very slowly (less than a quarter turn is usually enough) to allow any air to escape Tighten the screw Mop up any excess water Turn the electrical supply back on When you operated the hot water tap the last time you needed it, the water shuts off as soon as you turn off the tap. What parts does a home water recirculation pump include, and where to install it. The error code E445 tells about the defect of the bypass mixing valve. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. Having a tankless water heater is an energy-efficient way of getting hot water. Press either the Up and the Down button to switch between any of these recirculation settings: If a hot water faucet is open, you can adjust the temperature only from 98-110 F (37-43 C). On top of that, the recirculating pumps also return the cold water in the pipes back to the heater. Also, check the filters to see if they are clean. Examine the thermistors condition and pump wiring connectors. Close the isolation valves to the cold-supply and recirculation lines. Hello Frank, one of the disadvantages of recirculating pumps is that you have to wait for cold water a bit. We will presume that youre buying a hot water circulation pump for a household of 4 and that each person wastes about 2 gallons of water per day (mean value of Oak Ridge National Laboratorys study). Therefore, the only task you can attempt on this list is the gasket replacement for the leaking water connection. I just hooked up the NR-20DU wired remote control ($80 from Fergusons) and programmed 3 on/off recirculating cycles based on family needs. = heat loss from the circulation system [kW] Change the thermistor if needed. Typically recirc lines connect at the furthest fixture and allows hot water to flow through the main trunk lines. The electric recirculation pump uses this other pipe to pump the hot water back into the boiler or water heater. Then replace the heater cover and turn the gas or power back on. Sold by HVAC Pros and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. You will see in the photo that the cold water valve shuts off water into the domestic water inlet but doesn't have a shut off into the circulation water inlet. [Fix It Easily], Ball Valve Handle Broke Off [Step By Step Solutions]. To change the water temperature; Check this too: Richmond Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide. We trusted him and thought everything was just fine as we were getting hot water throughout the house. A recirculation system is a hot water line that runs throughout the house and returns back to the water heater. The E615 tells you about the irregularity in input and memory. Turning off the water recirculating pump isnt a big deal. In his spare time, Oscar loves tinkering with electronics. Full Recirculation Pump System - Going this route adds additional piping to your system, allowing for a "hot water loop" to be created, ensuring the water doesn't end up sitting and going cold in your pipes and instead is recirculated, ready for the next time you turn on the tap. = 4.5 x CFM x h (std. I bought the. Press the + (Up) or (Down) buttons until the desired temperature appears on display. It can also damage your main water heater and can create recirculation problems.